Last week I was appalled and sickened by the thread to which Andy refers, and specifically to the way he was treated by the commentator referenced. With that as background I investigated the website he built with his brother.

Folks, this is sickening stuff. Its arguments on the Jews in history, America etc. and the holocaust are frightening and parallel closely the arguments made by a certain madman whose name the Patch will not permit me to use – and those who defend him. Of course, the site is filled with endless anti-immigration garbage, wild speculation on 9-11 (guess which nation is behind it?) and lovey dovey for a leader of the KKK.

Suffice it to say that when the Patch says it moderates posts I find it unbelievable that the comments made to Andy and about gays (and previously about Brazilians and others ad infinitum) were left to stand while Andy, another blogger and I were blocked. Did we use strong words? Yes? Were they deserved? Absolutely.

So I join Andy in ending anything to do with the Patch. I have enjoyed posting photos, Rotary news and the odd comments about public affairs and the quality of discourse in this medium (which is pretty bad). Getting to know Andy, Gary Kelley, Jim Hetherley, Garry Kessler, Trish Reske and other bloggers has been a treat. A fine bunch, even if we disagree on things. We had some real successes in Northborough on street signs and I value the help Charlene Arsenault gave us there.

I don't want to have a thick skin to post on Patch: http://westborough.patch.com/blog_posts/my-skin-is-getting-pretty-thick-thanks-to-the-patch That’s sad.
I am fine with an intellectual disagreement. In fact, I welcome the discourse. (I still think JPs is a red light, even though Glenn, Ron and others disagree.)
Civility is the key.
It's a sad day when guys like Andy (and now Ron) abdicate. Since Patch is part of AOL, a little company with a market capitalization of $3.17B, I'm sure they have seen this before and know how to deal with it. Clearly they are beginning to intervene. In the case of these gentlemen, I hope the local editors can assist in a reconciliation process.

Andy, I am disappointed. As a person who takes a lot of comments, some of which make me scratch my head at times, I would suggest you reconsider.

Ron too.

Blogging is like fishing. You toss the bait over the side and wait to see if anyone will bite. There is zero guarantee as to who will or won't. However, what I am finding is that there are a lot pf people on the sidelines who dare not post, but watch the debate. If you comport yourself better than the rudest among us, these people will quietly salute you and look forward to your next blog.

I confess to having a few moments, but that's just the name of this game. Be better than your disparagers.

Whatever you do, all the best. JH

Jim, I wasn't going to comment, but....Andy is absolutely correct. As a management leadership specialist I would hope that you would think more about your colleagues and how in this rather disoriented mosaic we could have a better organization. We know you have thick skin and like the game, as you have pointed out many times. In any case I don't take a decision to turn off the Patch lightly. I wanted to be around to enjoy your response to the train wreck of the GOP wonder boys... :-) so I may take a peek in October or so. Carry on. And don't take life too seriously.

It's sad to see you guys leave and let the idiots win, but I get it.

Look Jim, from Ron, not Rob here. We are not in the business of educating you or anybody else about electronic commerce and clickability. There are hundreds of web resources that can help so you can do your own homework. Lets just say that Patchworld salivates every time you get someone to comment on your recruitment efforts because there is a good chance they will click on an advert. In fact, they love you because you are attracting folks from the 10%. So 'hey Jim, how about putting out some question leading to a decision to join your party'. Or in cruder cultural terms, what about breast feeding in public, or walking around with your fly down?

The hate guys Andy and I are talking about play the same game for AOL, which, we suspect is one reason why they are left to tick off and otherwise attract comments. In any case, it would help if you acted like you are really concerned with the real issues here: why Patch is blocking the likes of Andy, me and others while letting right wing folks who are arguable fascistic clog up space without fear of being themselves blocked. Would you be taking this approach if we were having this problem with far lefties????? Just step back and think about it. Thanks.

Michael Gelbwasser: you are losing 2 key contributors. This is a horrifying wake-up call to your readers, who may not read all the posts but read one with a headline "this is my last". The Patch is such an excellent resource - and it's being soiled - we won't read what we can't trust. What are you going to do about it?

Amy,

I screen all comments submitted just through Westborough Patch. And as some people can attest, I've been quick to step in when I've seen comments that are personal attacks. My tolerance for this behavior is very low.

I can't speak to Andy and Ron's specific cases, since I don't recall facing them during my two weeks here.

I refer you to the comments made by me, as well as my colleagues, Assistant Regional Editor Danielle Horn and Framingham Patch Susan Petroni, on this blog post: http://westborough.patch.com/blog_posts/my-skin-is-getting-pretty-thick-thanks-to-the-patch#comments . And Westborough readers have seen Milford Patch Editor Mary MacDonald, among others, step in as well when she has felt that comments are questionable.

MG

Michael - Thanks for providing the very informative link to the Framingham blog post's commentary. I don't envy your near-impossible, thankless review of blog comments on "touchy" blog topics, especially politics. My summary reader reaction is twofold: I'll continue to look at Westborough Patch every morning for community-interest information. I'll also read any initial blog posts of personal interest. As for commentary there, I'll read any comments from fully-identified posters, but look askance at any allowed by anonymous writers and/or known contentious non-residents. (If you can't legally remove them, at least I can still legally ignore them and hope others won't rise to their bait.) Westborough Patchers, let's fully identify ourselves and relate with civility!

Well, Andy, you're my hero again. (And now I'm sure people will say we've run off together...) Having spent a bit of time recently looking into and questioning Patch policy, I really do think that this aol-owned company is interested above all in promoting--or, at the very least, providing and benefitting by--a tabloid atmosphere in which innuendo and slander and bigotry thrive. It's like "reality" television: watching two women spitting at each other to win the love of a neanderthal bachelor CAN be riveting, it MAY be freedom of speech, but it is HARDLY EVER a good place to be. I think Michael G., above, sounds sincere and hardworking and I wish him luck. And I have found many voices worth listening to here. In general, however, I have found the oversight of The Patch to be sloppy and inconsistent, the end result of which is that the overwhelming majority of the articles are immediately and permanently drenched in an oily layer of racist, homophobic, cross-burning, anti-education, anti-Semitic, misogynist filth. So to the extent that you remind us that we might have better places to be, and better things to do with our time and talents, thank you Andy, again, and I'm with you.

David, what I found so disheartening is that though Andy, in particular, made it so, so easy for Patch editors to check out the offensive hate site, they apparently made no effort to do so before killing our posts. Had they done so they would have, like us, been horrified and disgusted what the SPLC reported on and which, with their very eyes, they could see -- anti-semitism, pro-Hitler apologia, etc.. Given the seriousness of the charges we were leveling as long-time Patch bloggers they could have come back to us with questions -- and to this day they have never expressed any form of regret or support. At the end of the day they themselves should have expressed horror and, in my opinion, banned the offender from the site. He does not have a constitutional right to publish in a privately owned blog. But you're right, they have crummy business practices reflected in their editorial ones. I, too, wish Michael success. I saw some progress in the quality of posts on the Nboro site, but the real problem is AOL Patch and its management, not particularly local editors. Soooo, like that wonderful Johnny Cash Folsom Prison song, the 20 minutes have wound down and off I go. Wheeeeee.

Where's the hate? You asked for it, you're never gonna get it, but one more time for the record and old times' sake:

"I stand on my grounds that the gay community is out of control when it comes to their gayety."

"The Bible us quite plain that homosexuality is the Biblical term for a "sodomite".

“75% of the Nigerians in our country are involved in serious criminal activities.”

"Soon the gay community that rewrote the books on perversion will get the Bible condemned also"

“Tell Israel to go to hell.”

"The radical Gays through their social terrorism made them change the disorder so now sin is ok, don't blame me blame them."

“I never said anything about Dr. David Duke??? 
But since you mentioned him, he's an honorable man in my book.”

“An honest Brzazilian.....who would of thunk.”

cont'd.

"I'm sure he can get the Brazilian strippers to work for him”

"this all might come back to kick them in the arse..... down the road. Of course some of them might actually like that."

"MOST of the time the gay lifestyle, unbridled sexual unions with multiple partners, is the norm."

"MOST of the time it is a WOMAN who starts the fight, a man usually finishes it."

“I hate to see empty storefronts too....it's too bad its all Brazilian.”

“The problem with the Brazilians and MOST South American Countries is they have a way of life centered around fraud.”

"The militant homosexual agenda is filled with perversion,filth and lust."

--all recent quotes from a Rizoli

"Hey that's not fair!!" You said it, it's perfectly fair to quote it, and I haven't even begun to post the large number of personal attacks you two make on a daily basis. Who pays you? What do you get out of it, shitting on whole groups of people whom you don't understand, and you stereotype? And what makes you so sure God is on your side? Where did that ungodly hubris come from? The Jehovah's Witnesses I've met are so kind... Oh that's right... You see, we all have access to the same junk you feed on. "Shame" is your favorite word, and shame is all you reap.

And when The Patch police rush in because of the s-word, and take it all down, just remember it was never anything more than the final fireworks at a cheap, under-financed, provincial fair.

David, I have reported this entire situation to the Southern Poverty Law Center and would urge others to do so...I believe the Patch is aiding and abetting vile and racist behavior at the expense of the truth some of us have tried to tell. If you really want to get sick look at the website. The pro-Hitler stuff is appalling. Andy has mentioned other dangerous blather.

I will be asking that the Westborough Patch remove all my intellectual property from the site. Today Rizoli's comments were put in the voices column, but the ones I made preceding him were not. Of course, the brave editor took Andy's blog off the front page early this morning, despite the fact that it was listed as most popular. Oh I guess that's the reason.

Yeah, Ron, I was curious as to why this most interesting and relevant article was not cross-listed the way so many lesser opinion pieces are... I gotta say, I don't care what the Rizolis' rant about--I looked at their site, and found wild and crazy anti-gay, anti-Jewish, anti-Semitic, racist stuff--but when The Patch powers disallow comments that take issue with the Rizolis' blatant agenda, and when it becomes clear that they benefit by their viciousness, that does present serious problems. I would feel better about all of this if I didn't worry that there are people out there who really might be swayed by this sort of "old-school" propaganda...

Andy and Ron
I hope you reconsider and stay. Your voices are important ones and need to be heard. As far as what the Patch editiors can and can't do, I'd guess I'd say "Who Knows?" I'm sure it is a revenue based business. But if their audience thins due to being insulted or offended, I'm sure that wouldn't good for business either.

Dave, I appreciate that. Who knows what might happen if this guy is totally banned and some really good rules and standards are put in place but, boy, this is infuriating. I will not go into detail here about my fury and concerns, but suffice it to say that my former work as a professional historian of racism, my very recent deep reading about fascism and the response of the media to it, recent trips to Russia and Germany and some personal experiences in which I was subjected to anti-Semitic prejudice and insult (I don't have a drop of Jewish blood in me, though my grand children do, and my new son-in-law is Hispanic). This said, it is how Andy has been treated that is the main issue here, and that is inexcusable and incomprehensible. And MUST be fixed. Right now I just see a lot of Patch ducking and weaving. The fact this blog was taken off the front page and buried this morning involves the local editor, who is now, in my opinion, complicit in this fiasco.

Did I already say my recent post, in which I named the Rizolis as disseminators of bigotry, was rejected by The Patch powers? Shabby at best, disgraceful and unacceptable by any means...

I see one at 7:22 which is pretty explicit. Was it another one? And I did see your list. Did you get an actual reject. Please send it to me at rgood@netzero.com. I want to compile a folder. LOL this is crazy. May be time to write Arianna Huffington.

Thanks David. I fear all the 'anti's' you revealed so well are of no concern for this America On Line version of the penny press. All we ask is that people like Andy get a fair hearing and hate mongers be gone. They have no constitutional right to be here and I am sure that AOL can figure out how to make money without them. Though AOL has been pretty sorry about money making lately.

Southern Poverty Law Center report:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2008/spring/brazil-nuts
I frequently click "Flag as inappropriate" when a Rizoli post appears and have encouraged others to do so. My understanding is that if enough people flag the post, the software is designed to automatically remove it. The SPLC report on ccfiile as a hate group is stunning. As Andy said above, their "web site is extremely relevant to what is goes on here". And the Patch editors allowing the Rizoli's to include their ccfiile email address makes them complicit in spreading the venom.
After a day and a half, Andy's announcement of his departure has garned 30 comments and those are mostly from fellow bloggers. After 2 days, the breast feeding 'poll' has garned 145 comments.

Right on Linda! It says something about our culture that the numbers are what you say. I did a screen shot today of a string of local voices referring to peeing in public. This is what the Patch, and so much of American culture, is coming to. I am of the naive belief that the media has an educational responsibility. As an old professor I would have to give the Patch an F. They should be thrown out of school for being complicit in the hate you mention. Its disgusting. At the end of the day heads should roll. I don't think these guys are in a corporate culture that knows what it is doing aside from checking clicks. On that one peeing and the one I predict about walking around with one's fly down will win!

Its not just the SPLC that has labeled them as a hate group. Numerous entities have including the Anti-Defamation League. We have been fighting them both here and other websites for a long time. Long before Patch. Dave Nolta could spend hours listing the attacks on society from the brothers. He didn't even touch on how they sided with the the Westboro Baptists or how they lobbied for a white neo-Nazi to not be deported which was ironic as they rail against immigrants of other races. Everyone seems to see it other than Patch upper management. I'm not talking about the editors. Mary and Susan do what they can. Its the higher ups that seem to be happy harboring the racists. I didn't know about the AOL connection but it makes sense.

Patch seems to be content trading contributing members for bigotry.

ts more than just our disgust with them. This is a website. Its not just national. Its worldwide. Its the world wrongfully associating us with them. My parents don't live here. But they frequently check out the Patch to see what is going on in my area. They've even made comments about relating those two with the whole of the Framingham people.

Does anybody know exactly how many ""Flag as inappropriates" it takes to make a post disappear? The Patch people are very vague about that--why so? As to the breastfeeding blog, what're you gonna do?

Gee...I see the witch hunt is alive and kicking here.
Our lives out of Patch are really none of your business because we keep our outside life separate from Patch. Don't like what I read or watch then don't reply.
We have opinions that some agree with and some don't, no different than some of you.
Jim@ccfiile.com

Sadly I have to agree with Andy. I see total lack of enforcing their own policies on postings and I have to wonder if they are only trying to raise their rates by this action. I can get along fine with other news sources

So, Y'all - where does one go for news and local opinion? There are 30 people who post on The Patch, and thousands more who read daily but don't "get into the mix". We're just average Americans, trying to keep up to date and understand our fellow Westboroughites.

If our editor can't keep a lid on inappropriate posts (due to rules or just plain volume), is anywhere "safe" these days? (And where can my kids read about our community?)

Its starting to be clearer and clearer its now a coverup mode. Mentioned this specific blog in an comment and it gets stuck in limbo for days and still waiting approval for the desktop version of the site. It quietly however got posted on the mobile version of the site.

Then a message on a person's Patch Wall referencing Patch policies gets blocked while a second message about something else gets approved even though it was written after.

Now I wait to see if this comment will get through.

Andy, I totally agree with your comments. I no longer want to be associated with a site that has lost sight of it's purpose. It's disgusting to read and more disturbing that the Patch is condoning such. My understanding was that this forum was for the purpose of allowing residents to discuss local events, issues and concerns that pertain to our Town. Not a forum by which we would be subjected to crazies preaching their hate agenda's which have absolutely no place in our Town. Not what the resident's of Westborough are about..... educated, hard working people just trying to raise their children in what we think is a pretty nice Town. The Patch needs to exercise responsibility towards it's core readers and subscribers who did not sign on to read such garbage. Maintain it's standards and invest in better filtering technology. Flush out the toxic garbage!!!

I am in California and yesterday had lunch with some friends who are very active in their community and really like the Patches around them. What is happening with regard to our issue would never, they say, happen there. Editors seem much more professional and sensitive to all the hate that is floating around, and is often masked. Comments like many we have tried to make would NOT have been censured and the editors would have taken the time to explore the hate group in question to see its homophobia, anti-semitism, pro Hitler attitudes. They said their Patches are real community sites. Not a lot of yakking about politics, but places where problems are addressed, new artists have a place to be known, etc. My view is that if this offending bigot had been stopped earlier none of this would have happened. Ditto if the Patches were not places for big political dumps.

@Andy, Susan's on vacation this week - will be back Monday.

I am pleased that Patch managers have addressed the issues that Andy and I raised and have taken action to shut down the transmission of the hateful information and resources to which we so strongly objected. That was the responsible thing for this company to do and I'm sure we all hope that this will make the Patch a better place -- and a more comfortable one for many of us. I want to thank the many individuals and organizations who contacted us to provide information and support, as well as Susan Manning and other Patch employees who bore the brunt of our persistence and, at times, anger.

So - this WON'T be my last blog post. Ron and I were able to convince Patch editors that they need to do a better job enforcing their own Terms of Use policies and to actively discourage, and I hope, prevent, comments that spread or inflame hatred. We both hope that discussions on our Patch will be able to be brought back to discussions about our community and that these discussions will be civil.

I am pleased that Patch managers have addressed the issues that Andy and I raised and have taken action to shut down the transmission of the hateful information and resources to which we so strongly objected. That was the responsible thing for this company to do and I'm sure we all hope that this will make the Patch a better place -- and a more comfortable one for many of us. I want to thank the many individuals and organizations who contacted us to provide information and support, as well as Susan Manning and other Patch employees who bore the brunt of our persistence and, at times, anger. At the end of the day Susan, especially did the right thing.

Readers: Note this is pretty much the message I posted Friday. Andy and I were never told this, but this thread on the Westborough Patched was shut down for many days. When I tried to post this message I could not until I asked and had the blog opened again. For reasons that may be technical the comments did not appear on the front page of the Patch, where readers would know we posted. The above post by Andy was apparently there, but only for an extremely short time. I am pretty mystified about all this and just want us to get back to a clean and open operation.

This is such FANTASTIC news! I have been HORRIFIED by the Rizzoli posts and have also written to the Editor Susan Petroni. Andy, your comments are thoughful, well articulated and enjoyable to read. I'm so glad the Patch will once again be a place for community and not a forum for hate speach. KUDOS to all of you who worked to make this so. Now all we have to do is get them off Framingham Community Television where they have thier own TV show. Yes, really.

Thanks Joy. I appreciate that and so does Ron.

The downside in Framingham is that Community Television is indirectly associated with the town government, via the agreements with cable providers to provide the service to the town; therefore the Rizzolis enjoy free speech rights in that forum under the First Amendment. They know it and I imagine they take great glee thumbing their noses at everyone who objects to them.

The Patch, however, is a privately owned web site, just like a newspaper, and can decide what content they want to publish, just as a newspaper can decide whether to publish a letter to the editor.

I'm glad some higher ups started noticing the fast ride to the bottom the local Patch's in Massachusetts was taking. Its also nice to see level-headed discussions in this very thread and hope more is done in the future... if needed.